Skills – Description

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    • #252
      Galan
      Keymaster

      First remember that skills were not part of the original design of Midgard. The version I had from Time-Space Simulations did not have any Skills sub-system. From what I have seen, skills have been mostly hand created / moderated.
      When I built the framework for Knightguild, I added skills. These were part of each Characters setup (think Leader / Followers in Midgard). What they did was give a cumulative plus on the random die roll whenever a challenge came up. For example if you tried to convince the City Guard that you had no idea how those gems happened to be in your possession – the difficulty, say a 5% chance of convincing the guard, would be modified by any skills that pertained to the issue.

    • #254
      Galan
      Keymaster

      I disagree with the Factions having a defined set of skills. Since skills do not define the character, just enhance your chances of success. While certain skills make sense for certain factions; I see no reason to mandate them. I would like to remove them from the Faction descriptions. Players can decide how they want their clan to work – a former bandit clan might have an attack of remorse and join the Gift to make amends for their actions. It is unlikely that their skills will be in line with your typical Gift clan.

    • #256
      windpeoples
      Participant

      A question: will there be a closed set of skills, or will there be a possibility to add skills in the future?
      Another one: will there be a list of known skills?

    • #516
      Galan
      Keymaster

      Currently, in the Midgard/Knightguild system, we have 29 skills defined. We can add more skills fairly easily, we just need to know the Name, Abbreviation, whether the skill is untrained, and which ability affects it the most.

      For example – Alchemy, ALC, No, Intelligence. Then the level that you train to becomes a dice modifier for any challenge roll that occurs. Note that you don’t know the base ability in Intelligence that your character has.

      So, lets say Max the Wart, a professed Alchemist hires on with you claiming to be an expert. You have trained him to ALC-5, and he is making a challenge roll in concocting Greek fire through a special action. The GM determines that this is a 16 Intelligence challenge rating. Max, whose intelligence is below average (which gives him a -1), gets a +5 for a total adjusted ability score of +4. He makes the attempt, rolls a 5, for a total of 9. Which is nowhere near what he needs and he is spectacularly killed in the resulting explosion.

    • #528
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Jon I have to disagree with you in regards to the skills. Basically each faction should have a standard set of skill that they are know for (7) skills each. Then I would make sure every player knows what those standard factional skills are, then when a player starts they get 10 skill points to choose what ever skill they choose. Then as they progress within their faction, they should seek to try to at least gain all the standard skills. Now as Jon has said there is no limit to the number of skills or levels any character can have. Also Jon has stated that we can add a number of new followers to our clan as well so we can greatly increase the skills set the clan has and thus what we are capable to do within the game.

    • #529
      Galan
      Keymaster

      The problem I see with that is it does not take into account the fact a player may not declare for a Faction when they first come into the game. So they may have a completely different set of skills by the time they decide which Faction they want to join.

      So, are you saying, that if I don’t have the skills that the Faction says I should have, I can’t join the Faction? Or that I can’t advance in the Faction until I have the mandated set?

      We have never discussed how you earn a skill point, just that you get 10 skill points at game start to allocate as you wish. This would imply that we have a basic set in the rulebook for people to choose from. Which would also imply the basic set would have to encompass the entire set of skills that each Faction can mandate as their starting set as stated in the rules.

      I thought of it being more that player would earn skill points as part of their experience and be able to allocate them as they desired to suit their style of play. How did Zan grant you a skill point? Or did he just grant a skill???

      • #531
        DreamWeaver
        Participant

        Ok in Zan’s game you were given (10) skill points to chose you basic skills and then you can choose what you wanted.

        Example: (1) points
        LDR: CMD-2, STR-2, SGE-2
        F1: TAC-1
        F2: SGW-1
        F3: CTA-1, SCT-1
        Then lets say this clan then decided to join the Imperials, they would then train in Imperial skills as needed, and pick up the skills over time

        Now to gain new skills, you first had to locate a trainer NPC either in some city or at some factional office or temple. Then you need to spen (6) Cycles in training and can learn 1 level of a skill for whom ever is training.

        Example lets say this Imperial clan in is a Merc Verk city and they locate s NPC training that can train (+1 CMD) skill for everyone. So after 6 Cycles you would gain a +11 level in CMD. It goes like this; 0.15, 0.30, 0.45, 0.60, 0.80, and then 1.00 for that skill. So after (6) Cycles you would have the following with using a Specail Action each turn to explain your training what character in what skill.
        LDR: CMD-3, STR-2, SGE-2
        F1: TAC-1, CMD-1
        F2: SGW-1, CMD-1
        F3: CTA-1, SCT-1, CMD-1
        Then maybe the player marches to a Imperial city and sit in that city for (6) Cyles and build and train in (+1 SGE) for all characters as well too and it would then look like this:
        LDR: CMD-3, STR-2, SGE-3
        F1: TAC-1, CMD-1, SGE-1
        F2: SGW-1, CMD-1, SGE-1
        F3: CTA-1, SCT-1, CMD-1, SGE-1
        Then maybe this Imperial clan spends the next (6) cycles on patrol with a single regiment assigned and there is a NPC trainer that can teach the LDR in +1 STR, and the (3) Followers in +1 TAC, So each Cycle one SA is used for the training and after that the skill set would look like this:
        LDR: CMD-3, STR-3, SGE-3
        F1: TAC-2, CMD-1, SGE-1
        F2: SGW-1, CMD-1, SGE-1, TAC-1
        F3: CTA-1, SCT-1, CMD-1, SGE-1, TAC-1
        So this is the process…locate a training NPC, then using a SA for (6) cycles to obtain +1 Lvele in a skill . It takes time.

    • #530
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Lets look at this from the perspective of advancing a players clan. Lets assume you have a city located in Kalmar, and you have (30) Cymru offices, (30) Seeker towers, and (30) Sea Wolves offices here are the standard skill sets for each:

      Cymru Seeker Sea Wolves Guilds
      CMD-Command PRE-Preach CMD-Command NAV-Navigation
      STR-Strategy REC-Recruitment NST-Naval Strategy SEA-Seamanship
      TAC-Tactics SCT-Scouting NAV-Navigation SHW-Shipwright
      ORA-Oratory STW-Streetwise SEA-Seamanship SMH-Smithy
      REC-Recruitment RES-Research SHW-Shipwright ENG-Engineering
      ENT-Entertainment INV-Investigation MER-Merchant MER-Merchant
      PCB-Personal Combat ENT-Entertainment NTA-Naval Tactics PRO-Prospector

      So looking at these (4) factions within the city and look at the possibilities of skills you could add to your clan. Plus in this Kalmar port city, with the Seeker Towers you have the chance of even finding other skills as well to train in.. You just have to keep the possibilities open.

    • #544
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Ok my advise on the skills is to have each player’s clan start as a Independent clan, and with that the player gets to choose from a “list of Skills” up to (10) Skill Points for their characters (LDR,F1,F2,F3). You can only choose up to a skill Level-2 no higher and each character must have at least one skill. Now as to the “Skill List” I would list every skill that each Faction uses as their Standard skills (7 per faction). There will be other non-standard skills as well, but they will not be in the Starting Standard Skill list.

      Then when a player decides to join a faction, they are advised what that faction’s standard skill list is. Then they are advised they should eventually obtain those skills to advance in the faction and be successful.

      Here is a example, say a player starts a new Standard Start up clan and they get (10) skill points to set up a Naval Independent clan with the following skill setup:
      LDR: CMD-1, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-1
      F2: NTA-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1
      Then this player decides they want to declare for the CYMRU faction and their Standard skill set is as follows:
      CMD-Command
      STR-Strategy
      TAC-Tactics
      ORA-Oratory
      REC-Recruitment
      ENT-Entertainment
      PCB-Personal Combat
      So then the player decides he will start to train in some of the skills.

      Now the standard process that Zan had in place was:
      1) Find a trainer NPC that could train both your skill and level needed (this was done through Special Actions) usually located within a city and using either factional offices or temples, but the NPC might be located elsewhere too.
      2) Then you will pay the price in Crowns or whatever is asked to obtain the training. Remember is takes (6) Cycles of running a special action each turn to advance your training in 1 level of a skill regardless what level of the skill your looking for. Lets say you had CMD-1 and you wanted to obtain CMD-2. You would run (6) turns and use a Special action each turn and on your clan printout you would see the clan skill increase:
      CMD-1.15 ( after 1st cycle of training)
      CMD-1.30 ( after 2nd cycle of training)
      CMD-1.45 ( after 3rd cycle of training)
      CMD-1.60 ( after 4th cycle of training)
      CMD-1.80 ( after 5th cycle of training)
      CMD-2.00 ( after 6th cycle of training)
      So using that process maybe when the player declares for the CYMRU they locate a NPC that can teach his LDR in STR-1, and teach all (3) of his followers in TAC-1. He then follows the process on using (1) SA a Cycle for (60 Cycles and then his skill list would be:

      LDR: CMD-1, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1, STR-1
      F1: NTA-1, TAC-1
      F2: NTA-1, TAC-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1, TAC-1
      Maybe next the player wants to have all of his characters (LDR,F1,F2,F3) each train in PCB-1 skill, and after following the process again for (6) cycles the clans skill set would look like this:
      LDR: CMD-1, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1, STR-1, PCB-1
      F1: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1
      F2: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1, TAC-1, PCB-1
      Maybe next he locates a trainers that can teach the LDR in Ora-1, and the (3) followers in ENT-1. They go through the process again for (6) cycles and then then the skill set looks like this:
      LDR: CMD-1, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1, STR-1, PCB-1, ORA-1
      F1: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1
      F2: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1
      Maybe the player decides to seek some training from the Local Seeker Tower Temple and decides to get a trainer in REC-1 for the LDR, STW for both F1, F2, then +1 SCT level for F3. So after 6 Cycles the skill set would look like this:
      LDR: CMD-1, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1, STR-1, PCB-1, ORA-1, REC-1
      F1: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1, STW-1
      F2: NTA-1, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1, STW-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-2, TAC-1, PCB-1, ENT-1

      So that is the process and it takes time to do all of this. So basically with this example, this would be a Naval Cymru clan that could do a lot of things over time. Remember by doing things you can also get other bonus in the skill percent. The better your skills are the better you can do things, and wider range of things your clan can do. Skills go up to Level-10, the highest I have even seen anyone have in ENG-8.

    • #545
      Daniel
      Participant

      I think new starts should have no skills or points

      Even if Indepentant or those who want to be part of a “group”

      Make it a even playing field.

      It also stops starts being independant just to pickup the 10 skill points when they always intended to be part of a factions, then just join that faction soon after.

      Maybe indy or those “no official structure” groups need to be at a certain influence level before that “group” will help train 10 points spread in something with 100% success from some pool of trainers in the mechnism finding a trainer

      Front Page order? Special Action?

      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Daniel.
    • #548
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      The game has always had (10) skill points at startup, but remember it takes in game time (paying money) to learn these skills anyway. I am just stating everyone starts with the (10) and then it is all on every player from there to learn what they want. That is a even playing field because everyone has to do it regardless.

    • #566
      Pendrakuil
      Participant

      i wouldn’t link skills to factions. Every position should start with same number of skill points. No cap or restriction on how to use. Everyone starts independent and joins in game. I’m assuming everyone starts anew.

    • #567
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Every brand new startup has (10) skill points to choose from the “Skill List” for their clan’s characters. Then you have the “Enhanced startups” for returning players that do not have access to finding their old clans. They get this one time bonus startup that gives them (13) skill points. Of course if you have access to your old clans, then what ever they had you will start with again.

      Every faction is known for having certain skills, that is the (7) per faction. You can either start with totally different skills and then within game take the time to actually obtain those factional skills or not, it is all up to each player what they want. There will be a senior repot being added anew that will inform you factional senior ship if a member has all the core factional skills or not. What does that mean, well it might restrict you from certain promotions or assets until you at least get the core skills for the faction. That will be between each player and their seniors.

    • #569
      Daniel
      Participant

      Thinking no mater what it ends up as play-tester start I’ll be fine with it.

      Galen mentioned about setup turns in this link Reply To: Setup Turns

      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Daniel.
    • #573
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      For me I use the Skills a lot for Special Actions and etc. I enjoy using the skills, and they do help you do things within the game too. So if I seem empassioned about seeing the skill system set up correctly, it is a part of the game that many of us use.

    • #623
      Steve-Kort
      Participant

      I see each faction having a set of skills it can automatically train people in. Whether you start with some or none of these skills in your faction is your choice. You design your characters as you see fit. Realize that all organizations will have people with some skills not the norm, it is the norm that they can train you in

      Now if you have a Factions structure in a city you can find a trainer in those skills. The level you can be taught to would be decided by the level of trainer in the city. Now say you are training in Strategy at the Cymru Office. No real issue for level 1 or 2 but for higher levels the level of the trainer would be decided by the number of Offices in that city. Say 10 office makes level 3 Strategy automatic with a chance of a higher level training possible. A 20 Office would allow level 4 automatic with a chance of a higher level trainer. ETC. This would allow for various trainers to move in and out of the city every turn and allow a change but the base level would always have someone available to help you.

      Now what I would like to see is a Train in skill order, lets say
      Train-Leader-Cymru-Strategy
      Meaning my clan leader goes to Cymru Office and trains in Strategy skill
      now if the system decides I am training a higher level than I can at the facility I am then self training in that skill. Lets say it cost 10 per level to self train for supplies and resources and 100 per level with a trainer. (These number could be anything you see fit) The results would come back saying something like this.

      Leader trained in Strategy with trainer at Cymru costing you 300 and gaining you x
      or
      Leader trained in Strategy without trainer at Cymru costing you 30 and gaining you x

      While I see self training beind slower I also see training with a trainer being slightly variable. In the example I assumed training to level 3 lets say this month the trainer happened to be level 5 meaning 2 higher than what i was training to so give a 20% bonus to what you gain that turn. This can put a great variable in the speed of learning

      I see a percentage of the fee being paid for training going back to the faction you used. Now if someone choose no faction then this role would be based on the size of the city to find a trainer and all money would go to the trainer with no group getting the money.

    • #654
      Nazareth
      Participant

      Would it be possible to get a complete listing of skills?

    • #703
      Galan
      Keymaster

      Yes, I will get them added to the next version of the rulebook.

    • #743
      Nazareth
      Participant

      Penn,

      Didn’t you purchase the US rights to Midgard many years ago?

      • #863
        KarlPrie
        Member

        That was my understanding also, that Penn bought the rights to MidgardUSA after Zan passed away.

        Stephen

    • #864
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      No I was considering it but did not actually do it. I am not a Developer like Jon, I am a Cloud Architect/DBA. The recoding issue was what stopped me from actually doing it, and I would have had to buy a copy of the license from Jon. As t all worked out I am very happy to just be a player within Jon’s game.

    • #877
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Skills are or will become a major important part of the game going forward, There is a lot more Roleplaying within the game going forward, and the skills that each of your characters has helps to define both the characters and the clan.

      Now I am trying to become the Seeker of Knowledge senior and the standard skills for the Seekers are:
      PRE – Preach
      REC – Recruitment
      SCT – Scouting
      STW – Streetwise
      RES – Research
      INV – Investigation
      ENT – Entertainment

      Now I am also very interested and will also be playing Cymru People’s Defenders and their skill set is:
      CMD – Command
      STR – Strategy
      TAC – Tactics
      ORA – Oratory
      REC – Recruitment
      ENT – Entertainment
      PCB – Personal Combat

      So for me and any Seeker or Cymru players I would advise building both Seeker Temples and Cymru offices in every city your in to open up training in the skills that each offer, then just use the Seeker Temple Towers to find other trainers in other skills. You will get a trainer with a “code” that you can use and even share for that city to train in that skill in that city.

      Now for a Seeker setup if you want a pure religious type clan maybe use the following skill set up (10 points):
      LDR: PRE-2,REC-1,RES-2,INV-1
      F1: STW-1
      F2: SPY-1
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1

      If you want a more rounded Skill Set up consider the following skill set up (10 points):
      LDR: CMD-1,STR-1,PRE-1,REC-1,RES-1,INV-1
      F1: STW-1
      F2: SPY-1
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1

      Then after the clan starts declare for the Seeker Religious faction then consider what skills you might train in. My advise for the training is remember after you locate a trainer or use a factional Seeker Temple or Cymru office it take (6) cycles to obtain any skill level in any skill. I would just sit in a city and spend that time training, building, and buying items you need to build up your clan. I would spend the first (18) cycles and train in 3x skills like this:

      For the pure religious type:
      LDR: PRE-2,REC-1,RES-2,INV-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1PRE or +1RES)
      F1: STW-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1PRE or +1RES)
      F2: SPY-1(+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1PRE or +1RES)
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1PRE or +1RES)
      So after that (18) Cycles your clan skills would look like this:
      LDR: PRE-3,REC-1,RES-2,INV-1,PCB-1,STW-1
      F1: STW-2,PCB-1,PRE-1
      F2: SPY-1,PCB-1,STW-1,PRE-1
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1, PCB-1,STW-1,PRE-1

      For the more rounded type:
      LDR: CMD-1,STR-1,PRE-1,REC-1,RES-1,INV-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1CMD)
      F1: STW-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1TAC)
      F2: SPY-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1TAC)
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1 (+1PCB)(+1STW)(+1TAC)
      So after that (18) Cycles your clan skills would look like this:
      LDR: CMD-2,STR-2,PRE-1,REC-1,RES-1,INV-1,PCB-1
      F1: STW-1,PCB-1,STW-1,TAC-1
      F2: SPY-1,PCB-1,STW-1,TAC1
      F3: TRK-1,SCT-1,PCB-1,STW-1,TAC-1

      Then you could either continue within that same city or move on to the next city and etc. You define what you want your clan to do and etc. As I said playing either a Seeker or Cymru clan and building both of those factional temples and Offices in what ever city your in and then using the Seeker Tower Temples to find other trainers can get you what ever might need. It works for me, as I will be playing both Seeker and Cymru clans.

      These are just my thoughts and opinions. The skill system is always what I dove into and what is important to me and this is what I believe to work well for this game. As always it is all up to you the player of your own clan what you choose to do with your clan.

      Penn

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