Factional change to the Buccaneers…calling them instead “Swashbucklers”

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    • #107
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Hello everyone I am proposing a change to the former Buccaneer faction where I have played a Buccaneer clan myself for a long time in the past. Now the Bucc’s were actually three parts together as one; we had the Naval Mercs, Naval Merchants, and Pirates. The faction because of that had (3) Senior #0’s. I am proposing that we stand up a new faction called “Swashbucklers” and this faction would be Naval Mercs and would also do Merchant trade too.

      • Factional Name:
      Swashbucklers

      •The primary purpose for the faction to exist?

      So the Swashbucklers faction is a Combination of Naval Merc and Naval Merchant faction. It is more of a Naval Merc but has a strong Merchant transportation side too. They have their own designed ship types that can be built in any city depending on the levels of their factional office within a given city, which is called a Harbor Shop. They view themselves as a Naval Mercenary to defend the seas from raiders like the Barbarians, and Pirates, or other such bad influence factions like the Imperials or Banner. They are allies of the Cymru, and Getham Family and seek to protect their Sea Routes and Harbors/ports. Being Mercs, they are willing to be hired to almost anyone for a fee. They have a friendly relationship with the Seekers and Gift Religions as well. They prefer to be defenders but can be attackers as well and work well at embargoing cities ports too. They seek to be the main Naval Mercenary faction of Midgard and Kalmar. They also view themselves as explorers and adventurers. They seek adventure for the sake of fun of the experience.
      • What distinguishing feature does this faction have?
      Swashbuckler ships - formerly Buccaneer ships from Midgard USA

      They have (3) specific ship types that they produce in any harbor city depending on the number of their factional offices that a city has.

      They fight on shipboard only and do not fight on land as Foot soldier Merk’s, they will defend or attack a harbor if hired to do so from the sea. They excel in either Sword MI or Bow MM troops from shipboard engagements. To see their Black Flags with a symbol of a Burning Moon on it is to drive fear in the hearts of their targets.

      •What specific in-game benefit can this faction have?
      – The factional office is a Harbor Shop and with each office, it gives a city +2% per office to increase a cities Harbor size.
      – New ship types can be built within any city depending on the level of offices: at (6) Harbor shops Carrack can be built and placed on the market, at (15) Harbor Shops Pamphylos can be built and placed on the market, and at (25) Harbor Shops War Dromons can be built and placed on the Market.
      – With (30) Harbor Shops, the city can if the City wishes to build it, can build a Harbor Fort, which adds two great walls with towers at their ends that encircle the cities port/harbor and aids in its protection. The city has to supply the resources and man cycles to build this supper structure, but the Swashbucklers will supervise its construction as only they know it’s secret design.
      – Clans in Naval engagements gain a +1 Damage as well as a +1 Defense in Naval battles.

      •What makes this faction interesting and fun to play?

      The Swashbucklers are persons who engage in daring and romantic adventures with bravado or flamboyance. They are an explorer and something of a swashbuckler. They are a daredevil, seeker of adventures, hero, crusader, adventurer, traveler, voyager, wanderer, buccaneer, mercenary, a soldier of fortune, madcap, hothead, adventurer · exhibitionist, stuntman, show-off, showboat, and desperado. They are the ultimate Naval Merc that has style to command the seas, and sail in the search for life’s adventures.

      •What (usually mutual) factional enemies?

      Their main enemies are the Barbarians, Pirates, but also the repressive factions that seek to control everyone and everything so they are at odds with both the Imperials and The Banner.

      Their Allies are the Cymru, Getham family, and hold strong respect for the Seekers religion and Gift religion.

      •What are the factional skill set?

      CMD – Command
      NST – Naval Strategy
      NTA – Naval Tactics
      NAV – Navigation
      SEA – Seamanship
      SHW – Shipwright
      MER – Merchant

      Swashbuckler Skill setup:
      LDR: CMD -2, NST-1, NAV-1, SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-1
      F2: NTA-1
      F3: NTA-1

    • #108
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Remember that Jon has already said that Pirates are not a organized faction so that being said, lets strip them out of the Buccaneers, and call the faction something else…in this case “Swashbucklers”.

      Now a returning player might do the following skill setup:
      LDR: CMD-2, NST-2, NAV-1,SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-1
      F2: NTA, SGW-1
      F3: NTA, SCT-1
      NOTE Then have all of the clan’s characters train in CMD skill, plus obtain true Swashbuckler ships like Carrack and Pamphylos. Remember you will start with 1,000 Retainers, 100,000 Crowns , and 10,000 Swashbuckler Influence.

      Stock up on some building supplies, food stuffs to make A rations , MI, MM and go explore the world.

      • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by DreamWeaver.
    • #110
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      If you want to only have factional declared “Swashbucklers” to be able to build these (3) new ship types then just alter that point.

    • #111
      Galan
      Keymaster

      I am thinking of this, not so much as a faction, but as a Kingdom. Should be based on a smallish island somewhere, heavy timber, etc. with a really good shipyard capacity for the main city.
      This would allow clans from there to have the various capabilities and a base to work from. They could also be privateers for other Kingdoms when those nasty little disagreements crop up. Ground based clans would be relatively useless and their main defense would be in their ships.
      Make them fiercely protective of shipping and free trade. Think of England – small country, worldwide impact. Call it the Emerald Islands and make all clans red heads!

    • #112
      Galan
      Keymaster

      Nothing is locked in stone folks – I tend to talk off the top of my head and then get serious when I start to look at the model and how to fit something into it. I think Factions should be distinct and have benefits based on what they are. Buccaneers or Pirates – two sides of the same coin (depending on who you ask), Picts or Barbarians. etc.

    • #115
      FutureSojourner
      Moderator

      I like the redesign, but I prefer the name Buccaneer. Also, if it set up as a Kingdom (not sure I understand this new concept but working on it) may be a name more akin to a family name would be appropriate?

    • #128
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      I was talking to Oliver about this, and I only proposed a name change because the Part side of the Buccaneers was being dropped because of what Joh had said. Plus there were a couple of other changes to them as well. Now also I proposed the name of “Swashbucklers” because it kind of fits. Now Oliver has another good name too of “Privateers“. I feel this would also work as well. With Jorge C. back, maybe he can also make some comments to. Maybe he might want to take up the mantle of Senior ship again in this Naval Merc/Merchant faction? I will regardless of the name be playing one of these Naval Mercs as well and look to have fun on the seas with it.

      • #129
        FutureSojourner
        Moderator

        Swashbuckler is technically about swordplay and not sea-going people. But Privateer would work, especially if they are attached to an island kingdom. Seagoing mercs/merchants sound like fun and I wouldn’t mind playing a clan within it.

    • #135
      Steve-Kort
      Participant

      Name does not matter to me in the Midgard USA version the Buc faction had three #0 rulers a Pirate, a Merchant, a Mercenary. I know the Pirate was on a small island off the coast of Midgard. The Merchant was in Kalmar, I do not know where the Mercenary called home. Now if you split the Pirate off then I think you make them a Kingdom of several small islands call it the Pirate Isles. Make that area very hard for Naval navigation so no one could easily invade them. The remaining I would make a normal faction with a city here and there.

    • #154
      Galan
      Keymaster

      Called the faction “Sea Wolves” and based it on a set of islands. It needs work, but should get us started.

    • #166
      windpeoples
      Participant

      I agree what is written is good for a good start. It will need a bit more thought as things evolve, but I like the direction things are taking.
      I am definitely playing Sea Wolves as my main faction 🙂

    • #180
      windpeoples
      Participant

      After taking a good look at the faction as currently written, these are my initial thoughts:

      Factional blurb:
      – I would change “represent the original inhabitants” to “are direct descendants of the original inhabitants”. Not a terribly important change, but it feels better somehow.
      – “Their ships are envied and feared by most of the Kingdoms”… does this mean the Sea Wolves have better ships than other kingdoms/factions? See my comments in the Bonuses section, below.
      – “Their forces can perform all types of military operations”… I think I read somewhere that they are basically useless outside ports if they are on land? If so, perhaps this should be changed.

      Goals:
      I like all of them. I would actually add one, though, if the Sea Wolves are a kingdom: Protect the kingdom from invasion.

      Bonuses:
      – Can make LI and LM weapons. Seems fine, especially since any Sea Wolf worth his salt will probably stock up on MI and MM anyways.
      – 10% of enemy casualties join the clan… I can’t grasp the rationale behind this. With the Sea Wolves being a kingdom I find this hard to see.
      – Looting has a limited impact on recruitment… same as with casualties. A kingdom should behave like one, not like viking raiders, I think.
      Instead of the two above, I think it’d be a better idea to have the Sea Wolves have an advantage of some sort in naval combat, to counter their ineffectiveness in land combat. The two ways I see this could be achieved (not the only ones, but these are what comes to mind) is to give them a bonus in naval combat (both to the ships and the troops), and/or give them their own ship designs. I understand this needs to be balanced, so the exact bonuses and/or ships I leave to those that know the model best.

      The other line of thought I have been struggling with is who would be the natural enemies and allies of the Sea Wolves. The ally part is easier, and the Getham easily stand out, bit it would not be the only one. It is the enemy part that is harder.

      One possible enemy I see after reading factional blurbs and goals is the Boda (because of their goal of controlling the coastal cities of Hawkholm, Fairehold, and Islant). The question is… why? Why would the Sea Wolves antagonize the Boda?

      Another possible enemy is the Imperials. Here the rationale would come from the fact that the Sea Wolves see the Imperials as invaders of lands that are not rightfully theirs. This could be incorporated in the Sea Wolves blurb easily, I think.

      I know I do not know everything that has been discussed previously, so I will not be offended if nothing of the above is taken into account. The fact that Midgard lives again and has a naval faction is more than enough for me 🙂

    • #184
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      For me the Sea Wolves as defined seems to much like the former Sea King Barbarians from Midgard USA 7.65 version of the rulebook. There was a lot proposed to redesign this faction, just look at my write up at the top post starting this thread. I think some redesign might be required here. I too have a former Bucc clan I might bring back but these details need to be worked out before we stand up clans again.

    • #187
      windpeoples
      Participant

      I see the Sea Wolves more like Sir Francis Drake’s navy (and the country behind it) than anything else. Hard seamen giving their ships their all, but nothing like a regular (or even irregular) land fighting force.

      Having said that, if the Sea Wolves are to be a kingdom like the Imperials and the Cymru instead of a faction like the families, a legate-type office feels a better fit than a factional office. If they are to be a faction instead, then an appropriate office (with distinctive bonuses) would be best, of course.

      The Banner do not strike me as a good enemy, especially now that secular positions can declare their religion. What would be wrong with a Sea Wolf clan of the Banner religion, for example? The Imperials, on the other hand, I agree with. The NPC groups I had not mentioned because they tend to be less powerful enemies, but enemies they are, of course.

      As for allies, the Getham definitely is a good match. The Cymru I am not that certain about. Guardedly optimistic about them, yes, but kingdom to kingdom alliances (if the Sea Wolves are to be a kingdom) strike me as possibly unbalancing, especially with the Imperials having lost their unbreakable walls of other Midgard iterations. If the Sea Wolves are not to be a kingdom, I am not as certain, but I am not entirely convinced either.

      Religions, I think, should be neither enemies nor allies, with different cities and clans being able to choose their faiths freely. Not exactly what England was in the 16th-17th centuries, but the personal union of England, Scotland, and Ireland under one monarch had Anglicans, Presbyterians, Catholics, and Non-conformists being subject of the same king, so it might just be close enough, and might produce some inner tensions inside the faction that could make for interesting play.

      Just my 2 cents. I have not played Midgard for a long time, so not everything I write will make sense to the Sea Wolf Lord, but I hope that at least some of it does.

    • #194
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      How about we change the name to:

      Corsair’s of Toshika

      Or it could be “Corsair’s of <add_name_here>” where those that want to play them can agree on something that is a bit more in character to what the faction is all about.

    • #204
      wordsmith
      Participant

      Would Privateers work? That seems to cover just about all their roles (merc, merchants and pirates).

      • #205
        FutureSojourner
        Moderator

        I had recommended Privateers, I like that term.

    • #206
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Jon has specifically said they will not be “Pirates” but rather Naval Mercs and Naval Merchants. Plus they will be a small Country and you don’t want them to be called just “Privateers“. Maybe you do something like “Privateers of <define a name>”

      I still like “Corsairs of Toshika

      • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by DreamWeaver.
    • #210
      wordsmith
      Participant

      Wasn’t there a Seakings faction in one of the Midgards? I’m getting so confused with all the various variations. If it’s a kingdom, then give them a random name related to the Ocean or Sea ? What about Atlantians? haha just spitballing

    • #213
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      The SeaKings were the Naval Barbarians from Midgard USA. Much of the write up for them went into the write up for the Sea Wolves. This whole think about them making their own LI and LM from nothing is a idea from them. I like better the idea of MI and MM for weapons types. Even better I would like them to have the following LI/LM, MI/LM, LI/MM, LI, MI, LM, MM.

    • #220
      windpeoples
      Participant

      I LOVE the idea of MI and MM… but I do not know if it would be too unbalancing. Same with the dual equipment. What I do know is that the Boda are going to be very happy with my construction priorities 🙂

    • #223
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      It isn’t over balanced at all, and since they are just naval based it is ok.So once again LI/LM, LI/MM, MI/LM isn’t over balancing at all. Means on Naval battles they would be extremely deadly to fight.

    • #224
      windpeoples
      Participant

      Ok… I may have misunderstood. I think the ability to USE light and medium infantry and missile weapons is perfect for the faction (heavy armour on a ship makes you a great sinking stone, and I don’t think the Boda will part with any of their dear HM). The idea of them being able to MAKE their own MI and MM is what I am uncertain about. The ability to be dual-armed is something I leave to those that know more than I.

      I just remembered the first time I saw a CVR showing 9 Bucc naval regiments of 100 War Dromons each, assigned to a (then inactive) Bucc Clan belonging to Kerry Harrison. I even remember the name of the Clan leader: Mananan, leader of the Dal Riada. It was the moment I fell in love with the faction, so to speak 🙂

    • #238
      wordsmith
      Participant

      A mostly maritime kingdom known for it’s superior trade and naval ability made me think of the Phoenicians of old.

      I thought this info might be helpful for this vision of the Bucc faction.

      A thalassocracy or thalattocracy is a state with primarily maritime realms, an empire at sea, or a seaborne empire. Traditional thalassocracies seldom dominate interiors, even in their home territories. Examples of this are the Phoenician states of Tyre, Sidon, and Carthage of the Mediterranean; and the Austronesian states of Srivijaya and Majapahit of Island Southeast Asia. One can distinguish this traditional sense of thalassocracy from an “empire”, where the state’s territories, though possibly linked principally or solely by the sea lanes, generally extend into mainland interiors.

      The term thalassocracy can also simply refer to naval supremacy, in either military or commercial senses. The Ancient Greeks first used the word thalassocracy to describe the government of the Minoan civilization, whose power depended on its navy. Herodotus distinguishes sea-power from land-power and spoke of the need to counter the Phoenician thalassocracy by developing a Greek “empire of the sea”.

      Rest of the article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassocracy

      • #260
        windpeoples
        Participant

        A thalassocracy indeed! Thanks for your thoughts and the link 🙂

    • #245
      Galan
      Keymaster

      In the build for Knightguild, weapons are separate from armor. So you can have someone with padded armor (Light) and a Heavy Crossbow, etc. Once we complete the move, we will open up the different types for mods. Currently LI is Padded Armor, Short Sword. While MI is Leather Armor, Short Sword, Round Shield; and HI is Chain Armor, Short Sword, Large Shield. It will be interesting to see the variations that come out of that.

      • #253
        windpeoples
        Participant

        Weapons will be separate from armour? Oh… that changes things quite a bit! I can see Sea Wolves wearing leather armour and a round shield, but using boarding picks, war axes, hammers, and other such niceties…

        Question: will different weapons have different stats?

    • #261
      windpeoples
      Participant

      Ok… here are my humble thoughts as to this faction’s design. They are merely suggestions, but some of them might hold water:

      The Sea Wolf Kingdom

      The origins of the Sea Wolf Kingdom have been lost in the fogs of time for all but the Seeker Towers, and out of those only a handful have the information in a language currently known. As the War of Assumption was about to end, a few Kamuji clans realized that everything they had fought for was lost, and the only way to survive was to flee with whatever they could. And so, they did. Gathering at a coastal city the Kamuji still controlled, the fleeing clans bought, hired and some say they even stole every ship they could find. It was the last recorded act known to the Triune Council, and what are now known as the Boda, Order, and Getham families.

      Skip forward a couple of millennia, and the descendants of those fleeing clans now live in an archipelago they simply refer to as The Island Kingdom. There, they settled and, although life was harsh, survived. They learned to live off the sea, smell a yet to be seen squall in the wind, build ships designed to be strong and fast, and trade with a rough and loud voice but an even temper. In one word, they thrived.

      The Sea Wolves, or the Brothers as they call themselves and each other, have become a culture of seaborne traders and mercenaries. Due to their spending most of their lives at sea, they do not wear heavy armour in battle, as wearing one and falling from shipboard is an almost certain death sentence. Leather armour is about the heavier they wear. Weapons and shields are much more varied, and they wield light shields and a variety of one-handed weapons into battle. Axes, cutlasses, hammers, and boarding pikes are as common as swords on board Sea Wolf warships.

      Long sea voyages have taught the Brothers many skills. Manufacturing light weapons and armour on board their ships is one of them. Some say that sleeping with one eye open is another. Being fiercely loyal to each other and protective of the islands they call their own is definitely another.

      The Sea Wolf Kingdom missed the Imperial Invasion and subsequent Harvest Uprising, with all the horrors they entailed, because of their geographical location. That also meant, of course, that they were not signatories to the Treaty of Frostmarch. This means they are not bound by its clauses, either regarding the Families or regarding the Imperials.

      And now, we come to the present. Enterprising Brothers have made contact with ports in Midgard, buying and selling their wares. Other Brothers, with a more military bent, have fulfilled mercenary contracts with several factions. What does the future hold for the Sea Wolf Kingdom? Only time will tell.

      Goals

      • To control the oceans.
      • To eliminate any barbarian and pirate forces.
      • To eliminate pirate city-states.
      • To build sea routes between Sea Wolf cities and all other cities that accept them.
      • To protect their Island Kingdom from invasion.

      Advantages

      • Sea Wolf clans and cities can make their own light weapons and armour, even in the field.
      • Only Sea Wolf cities may build their factional ships, and only Brother clans may purchase them (restricted market items).
      • Sea Wolf clans get a bonus to their defence and damage in naval combat.

      • #536
        Daniel
        Participant

        This write up is very good, there is a independency in the writing particular with saying they are a Kingdom.

        • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Daniel.
        • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Daniel.
    • #263
      Nazareth
      Participant

      What advantages does the factional ships provide that standard ships do not?

      • #267
        windpeoples
        Participant

        If we were to use the Bucc ships that were used in Zan’s game as a base, they would be better warships (although more expensive) than the common ones. The specifics would have to be decided on by the GM, which is why I only wrote about them, but not their stats.

    • #264
      windpeoples
      Participant

      Disadvantages

      • Sea Wolf clans get a penalty to their damage when using heavy or two-handed weapons.
      • Sea Wolf clans get a penalty to their defence and their speed when wearing heavy armour. Wearing heavy armour while on a ship increases Sea Wolf casualties.
      • Sea Wolf clans get a penalty to their defence and damage in land combat when not defending a port.

    • #268
      windpeoples
      Participant

      Hierarchy

      0. Sea Wolf Lord (GM)
      1. Admiral.
      2. Vice Admiral.
      3. Rear Admiral.
      4. Commodore.
      5. Captain.
      6. Commander.
      7. Ship Master.
      8. Raid Master.
      9. Raider.
      10. Raider Apprentice.
      11. Trade Master.
      12. Trader.
      13. Trade Apprentice.
      14. Buccaneer.
      15. Freebooter.
      16. Sea Master.
      17. Sea Rover.
      18. Sea Hawk.
      19. Sea Snake.
      20. Sea Dog.

      • #525
        FutureSojourner
        Moderator

        I would think for a sea-going people that captain would be an earlier rank instead of 5. I would put Captain, Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral on down. Have Admiral as Rank 5. Then for 4, 3, and 2 have Admiral of the ? (have something for each senior) and 1 being Fleet Admiral.

        • #526
          windpeoples
          Participant

          This is a thought I like. Will work on this, and make a proposal.

    • #507
      Galan
      Keymaster

      Yes, each weapon has its own damage roll – so, being poked with a dagger causes less damage than being hit with a battle axe. Also your chances of surviving are better – i.e. more wounded if you win, vs more killed.
      Warships in Knightguild are not different – a Longship is still a Longship, no matter who has it. However, the difference is the plus that you get with the particular ship – so, your typical clan might not get a plus, but a clan that is a pirate, has been a pirate, and will be a pirate – will get more out of the ship.

    • #508
      Galan
      Keymaster

      So far, I like where this is going. However, I doubt that any Faction could “control the oceans”. You might be better served if you said that you want to move the most trade goods in Sea Wolves hulls. So the economic model would track trade across sea routes and if the merchant ship was a Sea Wolves ship, you would see this reflected in the Senior turn.

      • #539
        Daniel
        Participant

        I always thought of that being actually literal about “Control the Oceans”…
        it is like say a goal of “Control Frostmarch Province”.

        There is still provinces in the game correct?

    • #517
      windpeoples
      Participant

      Thank you for the insights into the underlying model. The “control the oceans” bit was taken from an old rule book, and can be easily removed. Having “move the most trade goods” as a factional goal would put the Sea Wolves in direct conflict with the Getham, I think. If that is what the #0 Sea Wolf Lord wants, so be it. But if it isn’t, then the “build ea routes between Sea Wolf cities and all other cities that accept them” might suffice.

      As for ships, if the Sea Wolves are not to have better ship designs, then damage and defence bonuses would have to do.

      Two oversights in my wording when I suggested factional weaknesses above. First, in “get a penalty to their defence and damage in land combat when not defending a port”, I wanted to write “when not ATTACKING or defending a port”. Second, in “penalty to their damage when using heavy or two-handed weapons”, I should have written “when using MELEE heavy or two-handed weapons”. I was in a hurry when I wrote those, and I did not check things thoroughly.

    • #524
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      Ok let me weigh in on this, I have played Buccaneers and Sea Kings (Naval Barbarians) clans within Midgard USA game. I have played the Adventure/Explorer, Naval Merchant, Naval Merc, and yes the Pirate. Now the above proposed description was proposed by another player, and others liked that description of a faction. The focus was 72/25 Naval Merc and Naval Merchant. What you have proposed is not exactly what was the former Buccaneers were, and isn’t what was proposed above by me. It seems kind of weak, and although Jon is pushing for the Naval Merchant side of things, but rather weak on the Naval Merc side. I think you need to beef up the factional benefits and perks. Also the Offices need something more, as they need more added that gives a benefit to the city and the clans.

      Now looking at the Skills that might be chosen by a returning player with (13) skill points this is one that I know sent in there skill set:
      Now a returning player might do the following skill setup:

      LDR: CMD-2, NST-2, NAV-1,SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-1
      F2: NTA-1, SGW-1
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1

      If this player wanted to focus on Naval Combat, if they were to spend (12) cycles in just training and building within a city this is what they would look like
      Now a returning player might do the following skill setup:
      LDR: CMD-2, NST-2, NAV-1,SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1 (+1 CMD), (+1 NST)
      F1: NTA-1 (+1 CMD), (+1 NTA)
      F2: NTA-1, SGW-1 (+1 CMD), (+1 NTA)
      F3: NTA-1, SCT-1 (+1 CMD), (+1 NTA)
      So after (12) Cycles the clan would look like this for skills.

      LDR: CMD-3, NST-3, NAV-1,SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-2, CMD-1
      F2: NTA-2, SGW-1, CMD-1
      F3: NTA-2, SCT-1, CMD-1
      Now over those (12) Cycles, they clan can Train in Combat Stats, by better Weapons like MI, MM, LI and LM. obtaining food resources to make A Rations, and but Uniforms as well too. Plus maybe even building some things to make some money for their clan. They will also be recruiting retainers, they will need to buy more ships too.

      So after (12) cycles this clan will be setup to fight. Most likely the (3) Followers will each be assigned to different N Unit and out to hunt down a target. Remember too as the clan sails they Leader can teach (+1 CMD) to all of he followers in 6 cycles, giving them each a CMD-2, thus looking like this:

      LDR: CMD-3, NST-3, NAV-1,SEA-1, SHW-1, MER-1
      F1: NTA-2, CMD-2
      F2: NTA-2, SGW-1, CMD-2
      F3: NTA-2, SCT-1, CMD-2

      This Naval clan would be a pretty good Naval Combat clan able to take on most Naval battles. This is the focus of what I proposed. What do you want to play. I know a couple of players that if they must will keep their Naval clans Independent ready to form up a new naval faction.

      There are a lot of other things that you also can work on as well too. What do you want to play and do?

    • #527
      DreamWeaver
      Participant

      So I would change add/modify what the Factional office does, then define different benefits you would get as being a declared clan. Now Jon has stated if you can want to do something in the game and need to do it through skills, then research for them. Get a 30+ Seeker Tower in a city and look into skills. Now if you found and learned SHW – Shipwright skill and maybe SMH – Smithy, you might along with your knowledge of SEA -Seamanship , NAV – Navigation, and other such skills design your own ship types. The sky is the limit, so research it and give it a try within game.

      Also look at skills that are standard for each faction and figure out what you want to learn for your own clan. Building those Factional Offices and Temples or Towers that will aid you to get what ever you desire.

    • #578
      Daniel
      Participant

      I’ve been watching the development of the faction and just thought I ‘d share my thoughts and ask the question on what is the vision of naval combat going to be like in the game.

      The game is called Midgard after all so assume the Viking element still has some grounding in the game.

      Fundamentals would be
      • Ship to Ship
      • Ship to shore (amphibious)
      • Seige of city using ships
      • Direct attack of a city
      • Blockades

      The style of the faction/kingdom combined with appropriate mix of ships has knock on effect to other naval aspects of the game.

      History shows the decline of Vikings happen once Cogs – High boarding vessel hit the water, stopping them using longships effectively… the tactics of using ships as platforms – longships lashed together and fighting like it was done on the land no longer worked because of these type of high ships.

      So what is the ship to ship style of combat? Not the Viking style? Not the roman style? The swashbuckling vision of over the rails type is based on high boarding vessels.

      If swashbuckling and not the lashing together platform type, there is some alignment issues with Low boarded Vessels (traditional longships) or High boarded Vessels (Cogs) … which is different to a draft of a ship, water being shallow or deep.

      I worry about a balance issue right away of technology unless there is fantasy element. (which I am fine with) The rulebook does well at defining the Land based combat setting but not really on the Naval aspect.

      How could some groups actually be a threat if there ship technology isn’t suited to ship to ship to take attack ships that use a different combat tactic. Would they go after shipping lanes, how would they with with low boarding ships vs high boarding.

      Needs some thought on if they have other kingdom/faction/group enemies, they actually are a threat.

      One last thought, additionally I always found it curious that the only thing in the game that requires an ongoing maintenance apart from paying retainers was 1% cost for ships per turn. I’m not disagreeing with it. But why just limit maintenance to ships? Surely there is upkeep and deterioration on other things…

    • #580
      Galan
      Keymaster

      It depends on the player – if you use Longships to raid coastal villages; you are going to be effective. If you use a Longship to try and take a Merchantman, it will not go well for you. Ships evolved for different roles. The time period is just as gunpowder and magic are finding their way into the world. Sail is slowly pushing out ships that relied on oars, but in harbors oar powered ships will still be effective.

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